Idle Foundation - Forum

Subject: Why is it that....? - by: Torstoise

Sat, 19 May 2012 10:47:40 +0000

It's best to try out shoes after having walked for a while, as feet expand after walking. You want make sure the shoes will fit properly when your feet are at its biggest. Also, when you try out shoes in the store, you only walk a few paces often on a soft carpeted surface. Perhaps try and walk a half mile in the store over some hard surfaces if possible when trying shoes out.

And yes, shoe models (is that what you call it?) frequently change. I'm in the market for a decent quality-made non-slip shoe, but I just can't seem to find a pair that's decent. My current shoes are falling apart, but dabbing some Super glue has temporary sealed some loose ends.

Subject: America the 'no-vacation nation' - by: Redglass

Sat, 19 May 2012 10:29:44 +0000

WTF is in '5-hour energy'? Cocaine? (And what happens after the 5 hours...oh, I see, that doesn't matter, you're home by then.)

We have similar ads in the UK. Can't think of an up-to-date one because I don't watch much TV, and mostly BBC, but a friend of mine used to scream with rage at the Lemsip ads, where a woman was knocked out by a heavy cold but thanks to Lemsip she went on juggling her day instead of going to bed where she belonged. She also 'heroically' infected all her colleagues with the virus, most likely.

I'm reading Barbara Ehrenreich's 'Smile or Die' about the tyranny of 'positive thinking' in the USA and elsewhere, and how well it suits capitalism. What Tors called 'battered person syndrome' becomes 'positive person syndrome', as in 'if the job sucks, it must be my fault. I'm letting negative thoughts intrude and I'm not putting enough passion into sorting these widgets.' I reckon every 'positive thinker' and lover of 'good hard work' should read this book.

Edited to add: it is S&M, Bear. Not all S&M relationships involve sex.

Subject: We're Doomed. - by: Grateful Ape

Sat, 19 May 2012 10:24:50 +0000

hitchtom wrote:

eeekkk!

Well, while we're at it: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-17249476

If they build it, they probably are going to end up using it.......

Watch out, NZ...

Subject: The TED Thread - by: Grateful Ape

Sat, 19 May 2012 10:14:41 +0000

www.disinfo.com/2012/05/the-not-censored...me-inequality-video/

Subject: The Perfect Music Post - by: SleepyJohn

Sat, 19 May 2012 10:03:04 +0000

My favourite earworm:

Subject: Pet Peeves - by: Lupilou

Sat, 19 May 2012 09:26:51 +0000

9DaysDead wrote:

your veiny arms make me think of bulging cocks,

Oh no! Now I’ll never be able to look at mens’ arms in innocence ever again

Subject: In three words - by: Lupilou

Sat, 19 May 2012 09:16:57 +0000

LART by mistake?

yesterday

Subject: Lupilou’s Chill Out Lounge - by: Lupilou

Sat, 19 May 2012 09:14:24 +0000

Chinny wrote:

Some chocolate might help, Lupi...

...aaah yes chocolate is always welcome.......’specially if it’s Swiss

Subject: Waxing Lyrical - by: Chinny

Fri, 18 May 2012 21:36:27 +0000

Oh, oobee doo
I wanna be like you
I wanna walk like you
Talk like you, too ooh-ooh.

Subject: Randomness Bin - by: Bear

Fri, 18 May 2012 21:35:28 +0000

someone had to do it.

Subject: small joys - by: Bear

Fri, 18 May 2012 21:23:54 +0000

ziggy wrote:

Hitchtom: "Mrs Hitch and I's weekly pre-dinner Thursday night martini. Beautiful sunset tonight to go along with it. Damn I'm lucky!"

Sleeping and waking up next to mrs z. My life came out of the shadows when she entered it. I have the same response: Damn I'm lucky!

You're a soppy bugger, ziggy, but I think the way you talk about your wife is lovely.

Subject: I blame my genetics! - by: Lazy Daisy

Fri, 18 May 2012 21:10:06 +0000

SleepyJohn wrote:

Whenever I see the title of this thread I think it reads 'I blame my genitals'.

That`s just bollocks!

Subject: The New Lady P's Word Association Thread - by: Lazy Daisy

Fri, 18 May 2012 21:07:41 +0000

She know`s you know.

Subject: The Seasonal Foraging Thread - by: shadygrove

Fri, 18 May 2012 19:41:29 +0000

yum yum!

www.wildmushroomsonline.co.uk/Identifyin...he-Ink-Cap/index.php

Subject: The Folk Music Thread - by: SleepyJohn

Fri, 18 May 2012 18:48:47 +0000

shadygrove wrote:

Go raibh maith agat, a chara sleepy

Ádh mór ort!

Subject: Idle Quotes: - by: Mikey

Fri, 18 May 2012 18:30:31 +0000

Through the fear of losing money, forethought and anxiety eat away men's power of happiness, and the dread of misfortune becomes a greater misfortune than the one which is dreaded. - Bertrand Russell, from The Basic Writings of Bertrand Russell...loving this book.

Subject: I'm ha-PPI - by: Mr Thursday

Fri, 18 May 2012 18:22:29 +0000

Bear wrote:

It certainly is to that tune. It's what I hear in my head every time someone says PPI.

Chinny, I am onto it. I've downloaded a form to fill in, just need to see if I have my original agreement thingy. Probably not but it doesn't matter, I'm still giving it a go.

Keep us posted, Bear. Ta.

Subject: 150 - by: dogondoor

Fri, 18 May 2012 17:13:38 +0000

Aye there be truth in them thar words.

Subject: I made idler shirts - by: Magenta

Fri, 18 May 2012 16:50:27 +0000

Hi everyone, today the idea of idler and Pareto principle shirts happened to me. See them in my shop, if you want to. Link

Subject: The Four Word Story - by: Redglass

Fri, 18 May 2012 15:58:31 +0000

a Morrison's plastic bag

Subject: OZ - by: Harpo

Fri, 18 May 2012 15:26:01 +0000

www.ozit.co.uk/index.php

Maybe one day they'll all be reissued in book form, but until then....

Subject: The Dice Man by Luke Rhinehart - by: Harpo

Fri, 18 May 2012 15:22:31 +0000

I feel it's time to start rolling dice again, but this time with someone, rather than alone. Anyone interested in joining me in some new adventures?

Subject: The Idler's Companion - by: Harpo

Fri, 18 May 2012 15:16:53 +0000

Just got this in a charity shop - haven't browsed in it much yet though.

Subject: the confession booth - by: ziggy

Fri, 18 May 2012 14:04:55 +0000

I confess!!! I have nothing to confess. Because I do not feel guilt.

Subject: The Rant Thread - by: ziggy

Fri, 18 May 2012 13:32:49 +0000

I suppose all the media hype on any sickness is to focus as many of the masses as possible on it with fear, so they generate it within themselves, as part of the draconian plan to eliminate all but 500 million of the human species. They never put two and two together on the subject as to what ingredient amped by fear causes the rampant cancer. Like radon, from cement pads in houses ~ all the cement that is in every city and road.

Subject: Idle local news - by: Lazy Daisy

Fri, 18 May 2012 09:28:49 +0000

the-enchanted-pussy wrote:

Yesterday I moved my neighbour’s pig into a new pig pen.

He prefers his old pig pen.

I told him that we all have to accept change in our lives.

He just grunted at me.

Subject: Todays Birds. - by: hitchtom

Fri, 18 May 2012 01:14:20 +0000

Lazy Daisy wrote:

Slightly off topic but here is a cautionary tale. My cousin Tim got royally pissed some years back and propositioned his brothers attractive neighbour by saying " How about it then, oh and have a chip!" he says he does not remember the rest of the evening but awoke the following morning with blood on his pillow and a missing tooth!

Lazy, you have an extremely unsuitable family. You, Kanuck, and now your other cousin? The moral future of our planet is in extreme danger.

As for Today's birds, 6 or 7 Turkey Buzzards floating on a thermal above Pinkham Bay Bridge.

Subject: Summer swallows camp June 2012 - by: Lazy Daisy

Thu, 17 May 2012 21:01:46 +0000

Chinny wrote:

Oh shady, can't you call in sick?

I'm sure there will be another Camp Idle later in the summer though.

There better had be! And it would be great to meet Shady.

Subject: Welcome to BellyButtons Disco ----> - by: Chinny

Thu, 17 May 2012 19:37:39 +0000

Can't see the moon when you are walking in the woods. Until you reach the clearing...

Subject: Today I learned..... - by: ziggy

Thu, 17 May 2012 17:50:52 +0000

Bear: "ziggy wrote:
Ah the repetitive slap of a distended nut sack during a hot session of love making.

Ziggy! That comment got me a little hot under the collar.

Should this be put in the perv thread? Or rather, should I be put in the perv thread?"

Only if it seems pervy to you, dear.

Subject: Today we mourn the passing of... - by: Billy_Liar

Thu, 17 May 2012 17:36:47 +0000

The Godfather of Go-Go, Chuck Brown

Subject: Bearded Theory Festival - by: bigrichardc

Thu, 17 May 2012 16:41:21 +0000

I'm off to this tomorrow. Apparently there was frost on the tents this and yesterday mornings. Brrrr.

Subject: Harpo's Catalogue of Other Message Boards - by: bigrichardc

Thu, 17 May 2012 16:38:01 +0000

I used to look at that efestivals forum but it gave me a virus.

Subject: Daily website - by: Lupilou

Wed, 16 May 2012 19:14:04 +0000

12 Dozen Places To Educate Yourself Online For Free

www.marcandangel.com/2010/11/15/12-dozen...ate-yourself-online/

Subject: another thread about Facebook - lost the old one - by: Torstoise

Wed, 16 May 2012 12:57:07 +0000

I've installed adblocker plus on my Chrome browser and fortunately can't see banner ads on Facebook or video ads on youtube. Try it if you haven't yet.

Subject: More on Workfare.. - by: Lin

Wed, 16 May 2012 06:45:27 +0000

It happened again, handbags this time.

Subject: Business Attire - by: Billy_Liar

Wed, 16 May 2012 00:08:06 +0000

SleepyJohn wrote:

My work attire is usually: one crumpled shirt (un-ironed but clean). When I say 'clean' I mean no more than 3 fashionable looking stains. Black shoes lightly caked in mud. I walk a lot and only have one pair - which I sometimes polish if I feel like it. I may well be unshaven. I may well have a t-shirt under my shirt with 'THOR' written on it. The stain on my trousers is toothpaste and not - oh dirty buggers - anything more offensive....

"Oh, terribly sorry, Sir; I guess I misread the dress code as 'Business Satire'...."

Subject: What next? - by: Digital-Vegetation

Tue, 15 May 2012 23:18:39 +0000

confused wrote:

belly good to see you back here again

questions. in terms of practicality; did you save up? did you pick up work as you went along? where did you stay? how did you get around the uk? did you leave any personal pocessions at home? if so where, how? (parents attic, friends garage??) when you went home, where did you stay to start with until you got more money? much obliged

So it's the practicalities of finance that are stopping you is it? Yes you can save up, but likely it'll then never ever happen. Where to stay? Err...wherever your whim takes you, that's the whole point isn't it? About picking up work on the way.....maybe some kind of market trading? A suitcase full of tat jewellery or some other saleable product wouldn't take up much room in a van, something along those lines? There's always seasonal work and bar work, cleaning work and such like, you could sign on to start with and make your way back every two weeks. How much money would you actually need to live such a life? Leave your stuff at a relatives of friends, surely someone has a corner of an old shed you could use to store stuff? Rent a lock-up garage to store things and stock.

Once you've left your old routine behind, you'll find new friends, new contacts, new opportunities in new places. Yeah but, you've said you don't like driving, though the whole point is to live at your own pace? Maybe you'll find your new life just twenty miles down the road, just like I did.

Subject: Humans evolving to be childlike - by: dogondoor

Tue, 15 May 2012 22:16:55 +0000

Subject: It is with deep regret... - by: Lazy Daisy

Tue, 15 May 2012 20:21:55 +0000

Oh how I can relate with that Lin. I once did Saturday morning multi drop deliveries for Lynx couriers. You would get an address along the lines of. Rose cottage, Blandford Sheep Tupping. Dorset.
You may have "helpfully" had a contact phone number but of course you could not get a mobile signal within miles. When eventually after asking every village idiot in miles and finally finding someone not too inbred to provide some details to get you there the house holder would invariably say " well the post office know where we are!" DO I LOOK LIKE A POSTMAN! No I am a humble courier who has driven through TWO counties to get to your bloody door. WTF.

Subject: To-day I saw. - by: confused

Tue, 15 May 2012 19:35:00 +0000

just now, a huge shiny bright rainbow. full arch! and the sky a sickly yellow behind it.

its the least the weather can give us, it actually snowed a little bit earlier. well, ok, hailed. but it was cold hail...

Subject: love is the thing - by: Chinny

Tue, 15 May 2012 16:11:36 +0000

Yeah, I enjoyed that too.

Subject: Car Insurance - by: Mikey

Mon, 14 May 2012 19:26:16 +0000

Oh wow, confused. I think you're right. The Geico gecko and the market meerkat..

Subject: Find me an avatar... - by: Torstoise

Mon, 14 May 2012 16:39:18 +0000

I'm getting flashbacks of an era I did't exist in. I'm sure I existed in the 1960s in some form. Maybe gnat on a windshield of a VW at Woodstock.

Subject: Psychic Lost and Found - by: ziggy

Mon, 14 May 2012 16:12:54 +0000

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Oh Bez the Great, nay the Greatest, the Most Psychic, and Most Profound. *bows deep with gratitude*

That said and done, I think I'll just grow my hair longer and take some cid, watch everyone's wrinkles dissolve in a colorful waterfall, and forget about lost youth, chanting all the while my favorite two syllable mantra, namely "fuck it".

Um.....got any suggestions for winning lotto ticket numbers?

Subject: In Praise of Older Women - by: ziggy

Mon, 14 May 2012 16:05:26 +0000

Just makes you want to grow antlers, doesn't it?

Subject: Loneliness: Our last taboo - by: ziggy

Mon, 14 May 2012 15:50:12 +0000

Torstoise: "INFPs are free spirits at heart who seek to live in their own fantasy world and for some, a world that consists of just being or 'doing nothing' is a part of that fantasy."

^ You rang?

Subject: Idle Pleasures - by: Lupilou

Mon, 14 May 2012 15:10:54 +0000

a walk on the Welsh hills on a sunny Sunday afternoon

Subject: No Idea - by: Harpo

Mon, 14 May 2012 06:58:20 +0000

and Evil is getting Evil, and Sleepy is getting Sleepy, and .....hey, we could create an Idle Seven Dwarfs here - do we know anyone who is Snow White?

Subject: The Town Taking On China - by: ziggy

Mon, 14 May 2012 01:59:38 +0000

Redglass: "Do you prefer the new green shiny look?"

Well, I generally feel like I'm from another planet and that avatar was kind of interesting in a new thing to do way. But prefer??? I don't know. For a while I like the guy in a hammock strung between palm trees on a beach, sipping a Mai Tai, because I was in Hawaii at the time. Now maybe a guy sitting against a saguaro cactus, wearing a big sombrero and a serape is apt. I don't know what I prefer besides I would like the av to stay what I choose at any one time. This stretched face thing is making me insecure about my wrinkles, or at least more conscious of them. Personally, I think it must be a plot of some kind, you know, universal or someone tagging me for the hell of it. Any more I'm just curious if whatever av I come up with will stay. What avatar would you suggest?

Subject: Paypal are incompetent, thieving shysters - by: confused

Sun, 13 May 2012 20:59:04 +0000

exactly. aren't there laws about this kind of thing? monopolys and all that? hmm

Subject: Tonight I 'm drinking.... - by: Bez

Sun, 13 May 2012 20:24:24 +0000

...lashings of ginger beer. It's too sugary, not gingery enough, but there's a certain frisson of Blytonian youthfulness about the whole thing.

Subject: Iceland - by: ziggy

Sun, 13 May 2012 14:41:28 +0000

Maybe the constant sun warms the earth a bit. I'm sold anyway. Hot pools??? woohoo! If Idle Camp is there, so am I.

Subject: The Idler - by: Mr Thursday

Sat, 12 May 2012 20:58:03 +0000

Agreed. I've got quite a few of the 30s and go up to number 42 (43? The mind your own business one); Anyway, I keep the 30s on a bathroom shelf by the loo; the 40s are in a box somewhere. I think that was some kind of a point I've just made....

Subject: What we need is genius - by: the belly button

Sat, 12 May 2012 19:37:45 +0000

thelandofbutton wrote:

bring back Top of the Popsicles 1977!

How many men can prance around in yellow tights, brandishing a silver tube and a frizzly facial hair do like this man??

believe me Ive been practicing!

Genius andallthat

....for the rest of the album...I now return to theeee woods.

BBX

Bloody Hell - I go for a stroll and suddenly "ALandofButtons" appears!??

you say I must not fear Koumpounophobia.

But I think I now do...

eek!

ps: I have just remembered my login details so perhaps I have solved the fear...thanks Mr L

Subject: Idle Poetry. - by: Mr Livered

Sat, 12 May 2012 19:26:13 +0000

That's disturbing. So it must be good; or at the very least, you've captured "something" exactly.

Subject: A Ticket to Poverty - by: Lazy Daisy

Sat, 12 May 2012 18:01:41 +0000

Klupus wrote:

comfybed wrote:

Take our Dave our PM. From a wealthy family, went to an expensive public school, a stint as a PR for a Tv company, then into politics.

Cameron's first job out of uni was in PR a position he gained as I understand it via his in laws, you know THE Astors.

Starting salary £90,000.00.

Well he will be well aquainted with trying to make his wages last until the next payday then....champagne `aint cheap you know.

Subject: Who'd want to be vegan? - by: ziggy

Sat, 12 May 2012 12:22:08 +0000

SJ: "ziggy wrote: I see. And can relate. I do feel I'm missing out on something with the IF camp outs, even though the ingrained recluse in me gets the jitters thinking about it.

It's the only chance I get in the whole calendar to wield a knife and start fires. My inner boy scout loves all that!

**Health warning**

Knives and fires are dangerous kids. Don't do that at home... Not that it ever stopped me!"

Enough to make you feel young again, ain't it? I've been making do with hikes up the dry wash that runs behind this place, letting childlike imagination turn it into an exotic Indiana Jones type adventure. Soon I'll have to be alert for rattlesnakes hanging out under rocks, but that won't stop me.

Subject: Gardening time in the Great White North - by: hitchtom

Sat, 12 May 2012 02:34:09 +0000

I like your lawn ornament atop it Kanuck. A friend or a relative?

I uncovered one of those while digging a new bed for asparagus today. I hit the rock about 3 inches below the surface. I carefully dug out around its perimeter to determine it's size. Very very big. The upshot being that there is going to be this large blank area in the middle of the bed. Because that rock is staying right where it is.

Subject: LARTS - by: ziggy

Sat, 12 May 2012 01:42:54 +0000

life boats for two of each animal

bibolugrious

Subject: "Help" for job applicants. - by: Lazy Daisy

Fri, 11 May 2012 12:29:49 +0000

bigrichardc wrote:

Some good advice for people who don't want a job there.

Really!

Subject: Punk Rock Permaculture - by: shadygrove

Fri, 11 May 2012 09:45:02 +0000

Harpo wrote:

I went to a permaculture evening last night, there were a couple of boring talks, a slideshow about patterns, and a showing of the film Anima Mundi. We left during the poet who followed.

Permaculture could be a great thing, but it requires a much smaller world population.

So what are you advocating then Harpo?

Subject: Emotion Vs Reason - by: ziggy

Fri, 11 May 2012 02:00:25 +0000

Yeah, one is a rationalized victim pose, and with the other you do what you will.

Subject: Economic Systems - by: bambino

Thu, 10 May 2012 22:14:58 +0000

Mikey wrote:

I'm getting more and more interested in the details of capitalism, socialism, and communism. I was talking with a co-worker the other day who is from Cuba. I was surprised to hear that he really likes it there. Usually when I hear anything about Cuba, I hear negative things and the word communism is usually tied in. But he was telling me alot of people like communism there. They don't work much, they just get enough to live..and spend most of their time fishing. Interesting.

Growing up in America, you're basically told that capitalism is the by far the best system. Anytime socialism or communism is brought up, it doesn't really get much of a discussion. They are beat down immediately and treated like evil words. I don't know much about socialism or communism, but it seems to me from reading arguments about them from time to time, neither do most people. Even the definition of the words aren't agreed upon.

America has a few slogans. Two of which are - Land of the free. and.. - Land of opportunity. The latter I agree with 100%. If you want to bust your ass and get rich, you can probably do so. The former I don't agree with at all. People work ALOT in America. I don't think I need to really go into detail about the American working life. So if you're the type of person, and I think most of us on here are this type of person, that doesn't desire too much and that doesn't really care for this "opportunity" as much as the next guy..you just value the basics and your free time..is capitalism really the best system to be living under?

I'd like to hear what you guys have to say on the subject because I don't know much about it.

Hi Mikey

When people talks about capitalism usually points out to the US or any other wealthy nation (UK, Germany, France, etc) and say "see!, they are rich, free and prosperous because they are capitalist, hence, Capitalism is for sure the way to go for everyone!". On the other hand, when socialism or communism are discussed, they usually point to North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, Venezuela and say "see!, they are poor, backwarded, lack freedom and are ruled by egomaniac ruthless dictators; the USSR actually failed because Communism just doesn't work and brings suffering; it is a muderous system, remember Stalin, he killed far more people than even Hitler would have dreamed to do. Castro, Chavez and all those nasty men are nothing but a backwarded copy of Stalin; they all hate freedom and hate the US; they don't want you to be free and they have totalitarian minds so they want you to think the same way they think." End of discussion

The fact is that not even the USSR was a Communist system. Communism, it is, a further step in socialism. Marx's original idea was for socialism to develop in the UK. By Marx's years, the UK was the most advanced wealthy country in the world. There was Germany too as a close second. As for Russia, it was the poorest and most backwarded country in Europe so if someone have told Marx that Communism would develop in Russia at the turn of the century, Marx would have laughed to death. Marx died in 1883 and Lenin was born in 1870, and he founded the USSR by 1917. So only 34 years after Marx died, a sort of proletarian revolution was succesful in the poorest and most backwarded country of Europe. 34 years is way too short period of time for human history.

Needless to say the USSR was born to die soon, because it was founded under the worst possibly condition.

How it managed to last for about 70 years? They needed iron fist among other things. It is undeniable the the soviet system brought many great things to their people but almost always at a hefty, painful price. That's why anarchists like Kropotkin (and other people such as Rose Luxemburg) rightly criticized the Soviet Union from the starting point. They saw the real dangers of government controlled pseudo communism and proposed collective anarchism. Lenin kind of answered with the Soviets, is, Soviets are Councils. Councils for people, for people to engage in politics and free decisions. A democratic sort of mechanism to make the voice of people to be heard. But anarchist Kropotkin never believed the soviets would really work.

I guess it is hard to discuss Communism (or even socialism), mainly because there has never been a single example of real life Communism. Communism is in the books, libraries, discussions, seminars, conferences, speeches and the like. But never in real life.

Of course some would say Jesus Christ was the first communist. Or that some ancient cultures were truly communist. In a sense, that's all true. But we don't live in ancient times and we don't have a modern example of Communism. Also, there are few example of truly communist people.

At the end, the whole idea of Communism is that the means of production belong to all of the people. It is not a system against rich people, it is a system about distributing wealth. Wealth is produced by work (employees) and a mean of production (a factory, for instance). So lets factories belong to the people who work there, instead of factories (and employees) being owned by a few guys.

But soon people say: "there would be no Steve Jobs or other geniuses under communism because no Apple company can be founded under a Communist system, so people like Steve Job would have no strong motivation to develop their creativeness. Because if Steve Jobs were born in Cuba, he might have come with great ideas but he would have prefered to go fishing or dancing instead of working hard to develop iPads or iPhones because even if he managed to do so, he would have been unable to make lots of money out of them and Apple would be a Government owned company and lots of lazy people would benefit from one single man's great ideas, which is clearly unfair". That's a poor and wrong but understandable conclusion.

Subject: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment - by: sushil_yadav

Thu, 10 May 2012 17:06:32 +0000

Industrial Society is a lunatic society that is trying to save environment not by stopping Industrial Activity but by changing the technology.

Bring this technology, Bring that technology..........Bring this technology, Bring that technology.

A man is shooting someone with a gun........Some people are trying to save the victim.......They plead with the man asking him to save the victim by stopping the shooting.

The man says.....Don't worry......I will save him by changing technology......He replaces the old gun with a new one ........And continues to shoot.

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Environment has been destroyed by Industrial Activity........Trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity is like ......

Trying to save a victim of shooting by shooting him even more.

Trying to save a victim of stabbing by stabbing him even more.

Trying to save a victim of poisoning by giving him even more poison.

Height of Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality.......You cannot save environment by destroying more of it.

Industrial Society has been destroying Extra environment for 250 years........It has been destroying environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

You cannot save a person after killing him.......You cannot save environment after it has been killed by Industrial Activity.

The entire Industrial Society deserves the Nobel Prize for Lunacy for pretending that environment is getting saved when the reality is that Industrial Society has been destroying extra environment after industrialization and has destroyed so much extra environment in 250 years that there is hardly any environment left to save.

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Discussion cannot save environment........Money cannot save environment......Technology cannot save environment......Environmental Organizations cannot save environment.......Activism cannot save environment.

Animal Species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment through discussion......They did not even have a language for discussing environmental issues.

Animal species and Hunter_Gatherer Society did not save environment with money ........They had no money.

Animal species, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society did not save environment with modern technology........They had no modern technology......It was absence of modern technology that saved environment in pre-industrial societies........Over-exploitation of ecosystems became possible only because of Industrial Machines.

Animal species, Hunter_Gatherer Society and Agrarian Society did not save environment with the help of Environmental Organizations or Activism........They had no environmental organizations.

Animal Species did not destroy environment for millions of years.......Hunter Gatherer Society destroyed very little environment during a million years of existence......Agrarian Society destroyed very little environment [compared to Industrial Society] over a period of 10,000 years.

There is only one way to save environment.......Destroy less......Minimize the list of things that are destroying environment.

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Promoters of Growth rate, Economy Rate and GDP are the biggest terrorists on earth.......Millions of times bigger terrorists than Taliban and Al Qaeda.

Our society has placed a bounty of millions of dollars on the heads of Taliban and Al Qaeda

No bounty on the heads of people who promoted Industrialization, Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP that has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems on earth???

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that produced Trillions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste that has contaminated and poisoned the entire planet......It was Industrial Society.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that decimated millions of animal and plant species......It was Industrial Society.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that killed billions of acres of fertile soil with cement, concrete and asphalt......It was Industrial Society.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that decimated fish in the oceans......It was Industrial Fishing.

It was not Taliban or Al Qaeda that killed millions of people in wars.......It was Military Industrial Complex.

Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth.

For millions of years before industrialization the list of things that destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter.......Animals destroyed environment for food......Hunter_Gatherer Society destroyed environment for food......Agrarian Society destroyed environment for food, clothing and shelter.

Development is Destruction........Development is Destruction.

"Growth Rate" - "Economy Rate" - "GDP"
These are figures of "Ecocide".
These are figures of "Crimes against Nature".
These are figures of "Destruction of Ecosystems".
These are figures of "Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality".

Promoters of Growth Rate, Economy Rate & GDP are the biggest Killers, Murderers & Terrorists on earth.

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Environment has been destroyed by Cities.......Environment has been destroyed by Urban Dwellers.........City People are doing extra work which has led to exponential "extra destruction of environment".......... Urban Dwellers are the destroyers of Forests, Villages, Tribal Land, Rivers, Oceans and Atmosphere.

For millions of years "searching for food" / “producing food” were the primary activities of animal species, hunter_gatherer society and agrarian society.........and that is why they sustained for millions of years because they destroyed very little environment compared to Industrial Society.......For millions of years the list of things that destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter.

In Industrial Society 50% of world population is growing food for 100% of population and the remaining 50% living in cities is primarily engaged in production and marketing of "thousands of consumer goods and services".

It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population exists in this world.

It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population is engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services.

It is impossible to save environment as long as Urban Population is promoting Industrial Activity.

Industrial Activity is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population.

Consumerism is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population.

Destruction of environment is directly proportional to percentage of Urban Population.

Most of the people who do not produce food are engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services.

Most of the urban population is engaged in production and marketing of consumer goods and services.

In America 90 - 95% of population is urban......In Europe 80 – 90% of population is urban......this is why consumerism is so rampant in US and West.

World wide the percentage of urban population is about 50%.......If the entire world is made communist or socialist it is not going to stop/ reduce consumerism as long as the percentage of urban population remains the same.

As long as Urban Population exists all Industrial Activities will continue to exist and expand........ Energy Generation Industry, Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Construction Industry, Oil Drilling Industry, Oil Refining Industry, Transportation Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Network, Millions of kilometers of Air Routes and Shipping Lanes.....all these Industrial Activities will continue to exist and expand.

This planet cannot sustain a society that does not produce its own food.

This planet cannot sustain Urban population.

Environment has been destroyed primarily by Urban Population......Environment has been destroyed primarily by population that does not produce food.

This planet can only sustain a society in which [almost] the entire population is engaged in producing food.

One profession means destruction of environment for one thing.......Thousands of professions means destruction of environment for thousands of things.

Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years [compared to Industrial Society].......because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years......because it has destroyed environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter".

The list of unnecessary and destructive work in Industrial Society includes......Manufacturing and Marketing of thousands of "Consumer Goods" and Services, Tourism Industry, Entertainment Industry, Sports Industry, Military Industrial Complex, All kinds of unnecessary Research .....and lots of other work.

Out of the population that does not produce Food, the maximum number of people - a few billion people are engaged in Production and Marketing of "Consumer Goods" and Services. Industrial Activity for production of "consumer goods" and services is the biggest destroyer of environment.

Millions of people are working in Sports Industry......Environment is destroyed to manufacture millions of tonnes of Sports Equipment......Millions of Trees have been cut down and billions of acres of fertile soil has been killed with Cement & Concrete to build millions of Stadiums.

Millions of people are working in Tourism Industry......Tourism is all about Travelling which promotes Transportation Industry that destroys Environment......Millions of kilometers of Road and Rail network cutting through Forests destroying Trees and Wildlife.....Millions of kilometers of Shipping Lanes torturing and killing Fish.....Millions of kilometers of Air Routes killing the Air with millions of tonnes of exhaust gases.

Millions of people are working in Entertainment Industry........Environment has been destroyed to construct millions of Buildings that are used for entertainment and to produce millions of tonnes of Electronic Equipment that provides entertainment.

Millions of people are working for "Military Industrial Complex" producing and selling billions of tonnes of weapons all over the world...... Environment is destroyed when weapons are produced and when they are used.

Millions of City People are engaged in other unnecessary work that destroys even more environment.

Food, clothing and shelter......these are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans.

A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been only a small fraction of 7 billion today.

If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that are destroying environment.

At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.

We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated or minimized.

We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services immediately........Industrial Activity must be limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.

Subject: Suitcases with Wheels II - by: ziggy

Thu, 10 May 2012 16:23:35 +0000

And maybe they were imitating world traveling airline stewardesses, hoping to look jetset, Jason not included.

Subject: MY NEW GAME - by: Harpo

Thu, 10 May 2012 13:35:47 +0000

ziggy wrote:

We like to play scrabble on an enlarged board using three sets of tiles, four dictionaries in different languages, peeking in them allowed when forming a word. Oh, and no score - no competition, just fun. Then, when the tiles are used up, making sentences out of the words on the board. Not quite as much fun as tripping, but, you know, Owsley is dead. Que lastima.

I once had a Polish scrabble set - lots of K's and Z's, but they were only worth 1 point, and hardly any E's.

Subject: Confused's Manifesto - by: Harpo

Thu, 10 May 2012 13:30:02 +0000

more of a stroll, really. running is for tights and noses

Subject: Perv - by: Harpo

Thu, 10 May 2012 13:04:12 +0000

I'm in a band that's appeared twice in Bizarre magazine.

the Modern Primitives book is good, but others by the same publishers are excellent.

Last night I watched the Spinal Tap film again, and one of their drummers died by choking on someone else's vomit.

*Harpo catches up*

Subject: bicycle - by: Chinny

Wed, 09 May 2012 21:20:28 +0000

Thanks, Duke. Much obliged.

Subject: Wandering for no purpose - by: Redglass

Wed, 09 May 2012 16:37:23 +0000

Mr Livered wrote:

Absolutely

Here are two old IF threads that might interest you:

The Flaneur: idlefoundation.org/forum/practical-idling/141548-the-flaneur

The Fun of Getting Lost: idlefoundation.org/forum/idle-news/11563...-fun-of-getting-lost

Thank you, they look just the thing.

Subject: Glad I didn't get the Job - by: comfybed

Wed, 09 May 2012 14:41:36 +0000

Oh yeah the word team did turn up, as did going the extra mile, and dynamic. Which is fine if you'rw willing to pay for it.

The attitude of crap job employers paying minimum wage and expecting maximum effort. Is a bit like me going to Burger King and expecting them to make me a gourmet lunch. You get what you pay for, except with work. Hell I wouldn't mind minimum wage, if it meant minimum commitment and effort. As an idler that would suit me, but working hard and getting paid sod all. No chance.

Subject: 2010s counterculture - by: Harpo

Wed, 09 May 2012 14:08:48 +0000

Occupy is potentially countercultural, as is FKK, cyclist protestors, permaculturalists, flashmobbers, etc etc

Subject: Moving away from busy cities. - by: Lemsip

Wed, 09 May 2012 14:05:54 +0000

Torstoise wrote:

Yes, everyplace has a certain vibe. You can just feel it and is more than just the sum of the parts of the area. Parts of Arizona such as Tucson and Bisbee have a good vibe. Hawaii too (what Hawaiians call mana or the spiritual energy). CA too. Portland OR has bad vibes. Very bad. Almost evil.

Never been to Portland, Oregon but what I've read about it comes across as a hotbed of liberal extremism and political correctness populated by mainly goths, punks, scenesters and metal heads like the opposite of rednecks. The Suicide Girls website and business was started there. I get the impression that you have had to have gone to art college to get on there.

Subject: Amazon Reviews, Veet Hair remover for men - by: Klupus

Tue, 08 May 2012 15:15:44 +0000

Mr Livered wrote:

Bear wrote:

Maybe this will finally cure men of their inability to read any instructions.

Indeed. My American friend Mike had the opposite problem, when his hairline started noticeably receding. So he bought some hair stuff (I think it was called Regain) that claims to encourage regrowth and... drank the lot. Apparently that's not good; you're supposed to rub it into your scalp.

Subject: Favourite Film Clips Thread - by: alexilai

Tue, 08 May 2012 05:24:06 +0000

I quite love inspirational speeches in films.
Some of my favourites are in this:

Subject: Arguments pro idleness - by: punter18

Tue, 08 May 2012 02:23:44 +0000

Loved it! Thanks for post. And the Brazilian factoid is also amusing, because it reminds me of myself to some degree.

Subject: Big moon rising - by: bigrichardc

Mon, 07 May 2012 21:55:32 +0000

Dunno about days, I haven't seen the sky in the UK for weeks.

Subject: Letters of Note - by: Mr.E.C.R.Lorac

Mon, 07 May 2012 11:47:19 +0000

Look out for the letter to a memorabilia dealer from the owner of a copy of |John Lennon's final album signed on the day he died.

Subject: The art of the review. - by: Billy_Liar

Sun, 06 May 2012 22:53:37 +0000

"The Very Best of David Hasselhoff" on Amazon music is quite a mine of glowing reviews as well, with more than 100 5-star reviews, most of them quite lengthy in their appreciation of the 'hoff's supernatural abilities...

Subject: Greg Girard's cityscapes - by: hitchtom

Sun, 06 May 2012 22:10:35 +0000

Stunning pictures Livered! Thanks for sharing.

As for Kowloon walled city.....It must have been fascinating, but I'm not sure it was a terribly healthy place to live. Not much green space either.

Subject: Pet Corner - by: hitchtom

Sun, 06 May 2012 21:55:41 +0000

Wonderful Dead! I was thinking about Bonnie and you and Eliot today, and how hard loosing an animal is....and now she's back! Did she come home on her own or were you out looking in dumpsters for her?

Subject: Butterflies - by: confused

Sun, 06 May 2012 14:15:15 +0000

i saw one of these today. the weathers been so chilly i reckon all the butterflies have gone back to bed, so it was nice to see one out and about

Subject: Now on BBC iPlayer - by: ziggy

Sun, 06 May 2012 13:48:09 +0000

confused: "forum bottom?? whats it trying to say "

It? Maybe Mr Livered likes your bottom.

Subject: 1970 forever - by: ziggy

Sun, 06 May 2012 12:46:55 +0000

Mr Livered: "What on earth is "conspiracy to possess weed"?! Can you get done just for enquiring as to where weed can be procured? Surely they should have the balls to prosecute only those who actually do possess weed, not just those who conspire to do so."

It does seem alien, doesn't it? It was a charge that was popular back then to use by our wonderful enforcers of civilization. Basically, 13 of us got busted at once. I think the charge was designed for busting more than one at a time. Masonic daddies got most of the 13 off. Others ratted, cut their hair and played the established game in exchange for probation. Four of us went up the river, as it's called. My problem was the house the bust came down in was rented in my name, even though I had left 20 days before. That and my Masonic father, when cleaning up the house afterwards found a letter to my significant other in the trash that set up a deal, and was worried about his reputation, so set me up. Nazi f-er. Really. He thought Hitler was right, and that all hippies should be burned. And, you can get arrested for just offering an illegal substance, with as many charges as there are people in the room when the offer happened. How many charges you get just depends how big a bite they want to try to take out of your soul.

Subject: Home education the quiet revolution - by: ziggy

Sun, 06 May 2012 12:33:50 +0000

non carborundum illigitimi

Subject: I HATE SUPERMARKETS & CARRIER BAGS - by: ziggy

Sat, 05 May 2012 21:54:54 +0000

^ There is hope. Things do change when I get attached to them. But then, I got unattached about the av, and it changed a few times. I has to be some kind of plot.

Subject: Finding your niches - by: alexilai

Sat, 05 May 2012 17:06:55 +0000

Torstoise wrote:

It's a matter of degree that matters. Performing some light yoga can be beneficial. But going overboard will increase you risk of injury.

And you will in fact not be doing yoga.

Subject: Alexilai's spiritual corner - by: ziggy

Sat, 05 May 2012 14:53:07 +0000

^ The nature of the Tao.

Subject: Death - by: ziggy

Sat, 05 May 2012 14:44:32 +0000

I was thinking the same as well. And.....it seemed likely that the mushrooms would become psycedelic after feeding on old hippie survivors of the sixties. In that scenario, they get really tripped out, begin feeding on each other, develop a consciousness and civilization, and are the next dominate life form on earth. Of course, there is rock and roll for background music.

Subject: The Avaaz Thread - by: SleepyJohn

Sat, 05 May 2012 12:38:20 +0000

Redglass wrote:

Thanks - should have put the link in myself, but was half-asleep...

I know the feeling! Happy to save you the bother.

Subject: Which Doctor Would you choose to see? - by: ziggy

Fri, 04 May 2012 16:54:45 +0000

He had flair, no doubt. He had his corpse creamated and the ashes shot out of a cannon over his land, by Johnny Depp no less.

Subject: "The Quality Without a Name" - by: Torstoise

Fri, 04 May 2012 16:15:50 +0000

I do want to get away from the delivery profession. I'll try to get a job at UH Hilo or Hawaii Community College.

Subject: Olympic missiles - by: Lazy Daisy

Thu, 03 May 2012 18:37:55 +0000

It seems to me that our Wonderous government are giving us East German pre 1998 style snoopng and stormtrooper type presence by the back door.
It`s all for our "own" security you know......Oh well then the fact that we shall have all that missiles `an all is O.K. then. I think not myself but then I am powerless to stop it.

Subject: The Soundtracks of Your Childhood - by: bigrichardc

Thu, 03 May 2012 16:55:29 +0000

Another one of my parent's favourites:

But the first album I bought was License to Ill by the Beastie Boys:

Subject: General strike in the US - by: bigrichardc

Thu, 03 May 2012 16:47:20 +0000

Oops wrong thread....

Subject: Bare Necessities - by: Harpo

Thu, 03 May 2012 14:17:21 +0000

Laughter, ginger biscuits, cats, tea from a warmed pot, cartoons I saw when I was younger, music from the years 1969-1971, soft toilet tissue, plump pillows, clean warm bedding, access to a lot of trees and some flowing water.

Subject: Tom.H for England Manager Job .. - by: ziggy

Thu, 03 May 2012 06:23:45 +0000

Right. TH can do with England like he did IF, dump it and leave it to the peons to pick up the pieces and do their own thing, while he sells himself to the rich.

Subject: When people tell you things. - by: ziggy

Thu, 03 May 2012 06:06:19 +0000

tep: "I don't have much choice - next time I see him I have to ask him about the story; then ask him straight out whether it was a confession. "

Go at it sideways like. Ask him if you can snort a line.

Subject: Stay-at-home Idler not seeking anyone at all - by: ziggy

Thu, 03 May 2012 05:51:46 +0000

Where to I put the ashes from this burned application?